THAVIUS BECK - HIP-HOP'S HERMES by BRAM E. GIEBEN (AKA TEXTURE)

Thavius Beck is the producer behind k-thei???'s magnificent Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow; he co-produced much of Saul Williams NIN-assisted Niggy Tardust album and co-founded experimental hip-hop outfit Labwaste. His third solo LP, Dialogue, is a departure: as well as being entirely self-produced, the vocal duties are entirely handled by Thavius himself. In our interview for The Skinny, Beck talked about the personal nature of the lyrics on this album. Here, exclusively for Weaponizer, Thavius went into his own philosophy, the technical aspects of his production work, and his beginnings in the Californian music scene.

Images by Becky B. Leod.



Your press release mentions your affiliation with the group Global Phlowtations, and Project Blowed, a seminal LA hip-hop night. Can you tell us a bit about what you were doing in the hip-hop scene around that time?

I came to Los Angeles in 1996. At that time, the predecessor to Project Blowed was The Good Life Café, which was this café that was on Crenshaw. A lot of the people who founded Project Blowed started doing their stuff there. When I came to town, The Good Life was just about over, and Project Blowed had been running for maybe a year: I think they had just had their one year anniversary when I got to town.

I was part of this group called Global Phlowtations. When I came to LA I met a guy named Zagu, who was the head of the crew, and this artist named Sach. We formed this collective of ten emcees and four producers, and we were very much an insular crew. We didn’t really deal with outside influences. When we would go down to Project Blowed, we were there to battle everybody and show them our beats; show them that we were like. We rarely went inside.

Project Blowed was the kind of venue where there was a bunch of people inside, and then maybe two to three times more people outside, freestyling and battling and playing beats and stuff. So we were always part of that. In the press release [for Dialogue] it says that I cut my teeth at Project Blowed, but that isn’t necessarily true… I was there, I saw what was going on, people knew who I was, but I was never really accepted in Project Blowed. They were just like, ‘That’s weird!’

A few years later, you worked for Amoeba Music. What was that like as an experience?

I left Amoeba Music in 2004, when I started touring with Saul Williams. To me though, the best thing about Amoeba was that you’re surrounded by music all day: you’re very aware of what’s coming out and current trends, because you have to be. But because Amoeba’s a very different kind of record store, we had the freedom to still be who we were. To still be the artists that we were, and not get lost in this day-to-day… I don’t know, what’s the best word for it? There’s people who gotta have jobs where they’re just busybodies – you spend like, nine hours a day just being this drone in a cubicle, you have no personality, and you’re cut off from what your life is, and you have to focus only on your job. With Amoeba it wasn’t like that.

They brought us in because we were artists, and we gave the store credibility. It was good for both of us. The flipside of that was that you get to this point in time where you’re selling everybody else’s music, then you get home and you’re too tired to really work on your own stuff.

Since then, you’ve been part of a lot of different projects, as an emcee, producer and musician. Do you still use live instrumentation in your productions, or are you more focused on electronic techniques now?

It’s becoming more of a mixture of both. I haven’t held a saxophone in way too long, which I really feel bad about. I think one of the main things I’ve always been underwhelmed by or slightly disappointed in, was that a lot of electronic artists, they don’t necessarily have a musical background. So you can’t usually talk about chord structure, or progression and building within a song in musical terms when you’re talking to an electronic musician.

For me, it’s always been important to keep that in mind. With ‘Dialogue,’ it’s definitely my hip-hop record, where the beats are more like loops, and I’m rapping, so everything’s a bit more simple. I did that to prove that I can still do that. Now that it’s out of my system, I do want to get back to making stuff that is more musical, and, I don’t know, has a more organic dynamic tension and build and ebb and flow, you know.

I think that really stems from me playing instruments, being into jazz and prog rock and stuff like that. I really want to incorporate the electronic aspects of what I’ve done over the last ten years with the musical stuff I did the ten years before that.

You work as an official Ableton Live instructor – how has it affected your music since you started using the software?

Initially, I think I first approached Ableton in 2005. Subtitle was the one who showed it to me, and I was like, ‘I don’t understand this at all.’ I came back to it a couple of weeks later and sat down and really delved into it. I’m still learning new stuff on there: I’m still learning new ways to approach my music, and even to approach older tracks that I’ve done, and sort of mangle and twist them up.

Do you enjoy being aboe to pass on the skills you have acquired?

To me it’s great. I really enjoy it, because ultimately what I want to be able to do is to teach in music schools, or to continue doing the workshops and have them keep growing. It’s nice to know that what you are able to offer other people will put them on a path that enables them to be more creative; enables them to really let their voice out and say what they need to say, or express what they need to express. It’s important for everyone living to contribute something to the world before they die. If nothing else, I can say that I’ve put out some records, and enabled some other people to make music and express themselves, and that makes me feel really good.

Given that ‘Dialogue’ was such a personal project, with nobody else’s input, where do you intend to go next?

The next album I’m gonna do for Mush / Ninja Tune is going to be – well, they want more of an instrumental record, with guests, but I really want to approach bigger, slightly different types of guests, you know? It’s kind of a pipe dream, but if I could make it happen I would love to work with Beth Orton; artists of that calibre. Even someone like Mike Patton, or someone like that. It would take a little bit to make that happen, but I don’t think it’s that far-fetched. I would love to go in that direction.

How have you found your music has been received in Europe and the UK?

The UK and Europe in general are way more open to the kind of stuff we’re bringing to the table. They’re more excited about it. I don’t know if it’s just because we’re not from there, so they appreciate the fact we’re bringing it overseas, or… I’m not really sure what it is, but people are just more open. You play a good show, and everyone’s dancing and screaming, they’re really into it. You don’t have to question whether they like you or not. As an artist, it’s always really good to know that what you’re doing has an immediate impact – if I can look up and see that they’re sweating and dancing, and I’m still playing the show. I don’t have to wait for afterwards for someone to come up and shake my hand and say that it was awesome, when they just had their head down when I was playing, you know? That’s kind of the vibe in LA – you don’t necessarily know all the time. They might think you’re really good, but for the most part an LA crowd will stand there and nod, or stare at you, or check a text message on their phone. That’s why I love touring overseas – in the UK and Europe it’s very satisfying.



Tell us about a few of the songs on ‘Dialogue’ – you seem to have a very balanced, two-sided approach to your subject matter. ‘Money’ definitely doesn’t have a simple, black and white message. How do you approach a subject as huge as money in your writing?

I don’t really think there is any right or wrong way to approach a subject. Most of us view things differently, and depending what side you’re on, you’ll see it from that point of view. If you’re someone who is poor, and you see people who have money flaunting it and just wasting it, and they don’t see anything wrong with that, you’re going to feel slighted. You’re gonna be thinking: ‘Well, why don’t I have access to that money?’

On the flipside, if you’re someone who has a lot of money, you feel like, ‘Alright, I’ve earned this money and I have a right to do whatever I want with it. If you’re poor, you can work harder to get more money.’ One point of view isn’t more correct than the other. It just depends on your perspective. So I think it’s important to recognise that, in everything. Everyone’s view is different.

The song ‘Sheepish’ is very critical of people who buy into mainstream culture, but also provides an alternative to ignorance. Why do you think so many people follow the herd?

That’s just the nature of people in general. You have a handful of people who are leaders, and know that, and accept that role. Then you have this huge mass of people who aren’t necessarily inclined to lead. It’s not necessarily a bad thing – you need people who are followers to give the leaders their purpose in leading. It happens in everything: it happens in music, in art, in policy and government – whatever the case is; you’re always going to have that Alpha. Everybody looks to them, and then gets inspired to follow that idea.

From your lyrics, I get the impression that you’re a deep thinker – your MySpace also mentions Hermes Trismegistus. What significance does Hermes have for you?

Hermes is the father of all esoteric knowledge. There’s a story about Hermes that says that at one point he had this vision: this entity called Pomander basically bestowed all of the esoteric knowledge of the world upon Hermes. So he was a God amongst men, in a way.

He is the idea of someone who is the embodiment of what human potential really is, walking amongst men and sowing this knowledge. The idea of that is really, really cool to me. I’ve read some of the Hermetic philosophies and teachings, the basic foundation of what’s taught there – ways to live and approach life, to see things with different eyes. I think it’s a really cool way to look at life. It’s something I constantly try and remind myself of when I feel like I’m slipping. In a way it’s kind of my pseudo-religion, in a way.



‘Dialogue’ is a remarkable record – its compressed two to three minute bursts of hyper-accurate, technically precise rhymes and beats stay with you after a few listens, slowly revealing hidden insights and clever layering techniques. It’s a compact, mazelike record once you get inside it – and from outside, it pops and shudders like a slick, futuristic juggernaut.

In my initial review, I compared it to breakcore, but in actual fact it has little of that subgenre’s anarchic disregard for precision. This is a finely machine-tooled, high-speed dose of futuristic electro, with philosophical lyrics that work on the mind like slow but potent opiates. It’s definitely a highlight in what has been a great year for Big Dada’s US signings. Thavius Beck is on tour with Anti-Pop Consortium as we speak – catch them if you can.



‘Dialogue’ is out now on Big Dada.